Flooded? - '98 70 hp, 3 cyl.

[Ruminator]

I'm in NE Ohio, and may have waited too long this spring to fire up my outboard- possible gas gone flat. I haven't been able to get out and go fishing much at all last year or yet this spring.

But I added a little more than the called for amount of Sea-Foam to stabilize it for the winter, but it didn't want to fire up with the tank gas a little bit ago for the first time this spring.

I removed the air cleaner and the engine will fire and burn a half-second shot of starting fluid with the warm up lever lifted to open throttle.
Per normal sequence I then push and rotate the key.
At ten seconds I stop and turn the key to OFF.

The engine is cranking nice and fast- I just charged the battery.

With the engine firing on the ether, does that eliminate a flooded engine condition? Is this pointing to the gas? Its topped off for winter storage.



Thanks,
Jim

[Joe Reeves]

In the future, DO NOT use ether on a two cycle engine... it has no lubricating qualities! Use a 50/1 pre-mixed fuel/oil in a spray bottle.

Having the "No Fire" scenario changed to a normal "Fire" scenario when spraying in a starter fluid mixture indicates that the fuel mixture is not flowing through the carburetors into the cylinders.

Proper starting procedure of that engine is:

Pump fuel primer bulb up so that it is hard.

Turn key to START position and push key IN at the same time to engage the fuel primer solenoid. Keep the key pushed in until the engine fires and starts, at which point, release the key to its normal RUN position.

Is this your starting procedure? If not, do so. Let us know what you find.

(Fuel Primer Solenoid Function)
(J. Reeves)

The RED lever...... The normal operating/running position is to have that red lever positioned over top of the solenoid and aimed at the other end of the solenoid, gently turned to its stop. This is the normal/automatic mode position. Pushing the key in opens the valve within the solenoid allowing fuel to pa$$ thru it in order to prime and start the engine. Looking upon this solenoid as a electric choke results in a better understanding of it.

Having that red lever turned in the opposite direction, facing away from the solenoid, allows fuel to flow thru it to the crankcase area. One would only turn the red lever to this position in a case where the battery might go dead and the engine had to be started via the rope pull method. Look upon putting the red lever in this position as moving a choke lever on a choke equipped engine to the full closed position. Either one would supply fuel to the crankcase/engine for starting purposes BUT if left in that position while running would flood the engine.

The later model primer solenoids are equipped with a schrader valve, used for attaching a pressurized can of fogging oil etc, available at your local dealership with complete instructions.

Pumping the fuel primer bulb up hard fills the carburetor float chambers of course, but that process also applies fuel pressure to the primer solenoid.

The two small hoses leading from the primer solenoid branch off via tees to each fuel manifold section that would feed fuel to the individual cylinders.

Pushing the key in activates the primer solenoid to allow fuel to flow thru it to the intake manifold pa$$ageways. Cranking the engine over causes the fuel pump to engage which in turn sends fuel pulses to the primer solenoid via the 3/8" fuel hose.

Some engines incorporates the "Fast Start" feature which automatically advances the spark electronically so no advance of the throttle is required for starting.
Engines that do not have the "Fast Start" feature will be required to have the throttle advanced slightly.

Starting procedure: pump fuel bulb up hard, crank engine and push the key in at the same time. When the engine fires/starts, release the key so that it falls back to the run position.

Bottom line..... Look upon the primer solenoid as an electric choke.

[Ruminator]

Thanks for replying Joe.
I won't use Starting Fluid again.

I bought the engine new in 1998 and have followed the manual procedure all these years. Its the 70 TL model with the System Check system.
In the year my manual was printed its referred to as "QuikStart" which sounds like the same thing.

This is what I do:
- pumping up the fuel bulb making sure its hard
- moving the warm up lever to open the throttle (cold engine starts)
- pushing the key and holding it in while the engine cranks to start
- release the key to its RUN position at engine startup
- moving the warm up lever(choke lever?) downward to its RUN position as the engine warms up

After the engine is warmed up, any restarts only require a turn of the key to its Start position to fire it up again.

I've never worked with the primer solenoid or its red lever.
In looking at it now its pointing toward the back of the solenoid, which as you said, is the correct location for normal operation.

You've covered in great detail factors I need to consider, thank-you.
I just tried to start the engine again per this start up procedure to no avail?

I've not tried to start it in the "Fast idle while in Neutral" mode in case its flooded, I'll try that tomorrow.

[Ruminator]

For operating in "Fast Idle in Neutral" my manual states simply: "adjust the throttle so the engine does not overspeed".

There is no special starting procedure given so I assume the standard procedure is to be followed with the addition of the throttle advanced a little while kept in Neutral?
Just keep trying for less than 10 seconds at a time, then wait a couple minutes and try again is my guess? Similar to how we used to start a car that got flooded back in the day?

The only difference being that I don't need to keep the key pressed in while its turned to OFF, like how we would keep the gas pedal kept down so as to not send another shot of gas into the carbs when we turned the key again to turn over the flooded engine?
.

[Joe Reeves]

The warm up lever simply advances the throttle without putting the engine in gear. There is no choke.... in its place is the Fuel Primer Solenoid of which I have explained its purpose and operation.

Since the engine will fire when you spray in a starting mixture... I will a$$ume that you have compression and ignition... BUT... you are not getting any fuel mixture to the cylinder via the engine's normal starting procedure. This would entail either all carburetors being fouled (not likely but possible)... OR... failure of the Fuel Primer Solenoid.

To test the Fuel Primer Solenoid.....

Locate one of the small hoses leading from that solenoid to the carburetors or the intake manifold and remove just one of the hoses... have the hose aimed in a proper safe direction of your choosing.

Pump the Fuel Primer Solenoid up hard. While observing the end of that primer hose, tuen the key to the ON position (Engine Not Running) and push the key in.

If the solenoid engaged, fuel would shoot out of the end of that hose as long as the "Primer "Bulb" is hard (pressure applied).

If fuel does not shoot out of the hose, check to see if 12v is applied when you have the key turned to ON and the key pushed in. If no voltage, find out why.

If fuel does not shoot out and you DO have 12v applied to the solenoid, check to see if you have fuel supplied to the solenoid by simply removing the feed hose. If fuel and 12v is present at that point and fuel does not shoot out of the primer hose... the Primer Solenoid is obviously faulty and will require repairs or replacing. Let us know what you find.

[Ruminator]

Great, thanks Joe. I'll do just that.

[Joe Reeves]

Also... a feature I overlooked that your engine has "Quickstart".

That feature automatically advances the spark advance electronically. With this feature installed, DO NOT advance the throttle warm up lever when starting, leave it in the idle position. The engine will start at a higher rpm than idle, then as it warms up, the automatic spark advance will drop down to which lowers the idle to normal.

[Ruminator]

Ok, will do.

I'll next check out the primer solenoid as you described.

The reason I was going to try the "Fast Idle in Neutral" startup was to see if I have flooded the engine with the six + times I've attempted to start it, all using the Push and Turn.
I thought perhaps the choke butterfly plates might open to allow a maximum air flow for de-flooding. My manual states to only use this procedure for a flooded condition.

[Joe Reeves]

Ok, will do. I'll next check out the primer solenoid as you described. The reason I was going to try the "Fast Idle in Neutral" startup was to see if I have flooded the engine with the six + times I've attempted to start it, all using the Push and Turn. I thought perhaps the choke butterfly plates might open to allow a maximum air flow for de-flooding. My manual states to only use this procedure for a flooded condition.

You're not grasping what I'm telling you.... there is no choke setup on that engine so there are no choke butterflies. The engine has a Fuel Primer Solenoid that injects fuel directly into the intake manifold when you push the key in.

If the engine didn't fire at all, it's highly unlikely that it was flooded... more likely that it wasn't getting any fuel to the cylinders at all... hence the suggestion of trouble shooting the Fuel Primer Solenoid.

[RC DAVIS]

For simplification, the RUN position of the primer solenoid is when the red lever is turned fully clockwise. When turned 90 degrees counter clockwise from that position, it is in the manually open mode, which allows the engine to start by squeezing the primer bulb while cranking the motor. That is used for starting in an emergency when the primer solenoid fails, or is getting no power due to a bad switch, broken wire, or dead battery (when rope pull starting). As soon as the motor starts, move the red lever back to the run position.

Basically, if you can hear the solenoid click whenever you push in on the key (while key is in the run position), then the primer solenoid is OK. In that case, check the hoses to the intake manifold to make sure they are connected and not plugged.

ALSO, If you don't hear the solenoid click, check to make sure that the screw that holds it in place is not over tightened. If it is, it can warp the solenoid causing it to stick closed. The mounting screw needs only be slightly snug, not tight. Usually loosening that screw will take the pressure off the solenoid allowing it to operate.

[Ruminator]

Thanks for clarifying for me Joe.

I've been thinking that when I look into the three cylinder intakes that I was seeing choke plates that do move a little when I raise the warm up lever. They look for all the world like choke plates. What are the round plates mounted on horizontal shafts that cover the inside diameter of the three carb throats?

I took a picture to upload, but I don't see any member galleries.

Thank-you for your continued help.

[Ruminator]

I'm back with an update- We've had rain, rain, rain here and I caught a cold; just got back to the boat this evening.
I snapped a photo of the "air intake control plates" that are in the carb throats but can't find how to get a photo into a post? Are there member photo galleries I can upload to?
They are round brass plates the diameter of the carb throats and mounted on horizontal stainless shafts.
I apologize for calling them choke plates but don't know what else to call them? What are they for?

I do hear the solenoid click, and the solenoid bracket tightness (top bolt) is barely snug from the factory, so good there.

After pumping up the bulb to its greatest hardness I did not get any fuel when I pressed in the key while its in the RUN position after disconnecting the LOWER hose.

[Ruminator]

The solenoid is grounded by a black wire, while a purple wire with a white stripe energizes it. This wire has a handy inline disconnect connection.

To test for 12v do I simply put a voltmeter inline of the purple wire after disconnecting that connection and turning the key to its RUN position?

[Joe Reeves]

The solenoid is grounded by a black wire, while a purple wire with a white stripe energizes it. This wire has a handy inline disconnect connection.

To test for 12v do I simply put a voltmeter inline of the purple wire after disconnecting that connection and turning the key to its RUN position?

Yes, you can check for voltage to the primer solenoid as you stated. However, you can leave it connected... makes no difference. Meter set to read 12v, RED meter lead to purple/white wire, Black meter lead to ground. Ignition switch in ON position (engine NOT running)... pushing the key in sends 12v to the solenoid.

What you are calling "choke plate" is actually the throttle butterfly. As you increase the throttle handle, that action cause the throttle butterfly to open.

Note that when you pump the throttle handle... that does not cause fuel to shoot out of the carburetor such as an automobile carburetor. It is the vacuum of the engine running (cranking over) that causes the fuel to be pulled out of the carburetor.

Keep in mind that your problem is NOT a flooded engine.... it is a engine that IS NOT getting fuel to the cylinders, hence the present Primer Solenoid test.

[Ruminator]

Oh OK, thank-you Joe.

I'll report back after I get this test done.